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    Repick Thing midgame?

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    Vicboy
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    Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Vicboy on Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:16 pm

    Something that bothers me is when the Thing dies with some Marines not having seen any action. So I was thinking that if the Thing dies, a new one is picked. Maybe until a certain amount of players or when certain conditions are fulfilled will the game end. I'm not sure, I need opinions on this general idea.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:58 pm

    I remember this from early alpha! I'm not quite sure about its mechanics yet but I'm probably going to be thinking about this all day. Why could this be potentially be making a gigantic difference?

    The playerbase has had a huge influx of cadets lately and games and prone to end by primarily experienced players. Some games experienced players will end up killing the thing (sometimes a cadet thing) before 2-3 cadets even find a group. The cadets find it boring, because they literally didn't even play, and do not remake the lobby because they are thinking, "That was pointless and stupid. I don't want to play that again, its a waste of time."

    Thus we end up with less players playing the game.

    I'll post later today on my ideas. Give me a couple hours to think.

    So hyped! ♥
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:07 pm

    I've got an idea. Gtg. Post in half hour.


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:03 pm

    Ok, here we go.

    Here is my initial idea, more to come hopefully.

    What are our three thing options? We have pro opt (most used), random opt (moderate use), overdue opt (rarely used).

    So lets look behind why...

    The Thing doesn't have a huge playerbase. To get a lobby started you usually have to wait for half an hour between 3-4pm EST if you want a big lobby later in the night. Even then, you will most likely end up with lots of cadets at the start. Lobbies take forever to create, as players get bored and leave or think the game is stupid from not actually playing it.

    Lets look at selection:

    Pro opt is the most common selection for The Thing. Why? Because a bad thing dies quickly, and then cadets and other players leave because it is boring. If players leave, then its a longer lobby wait time. Players just want to play, not wait, so having a good thing that interesting that will not die quickly is essential. So that's why pro opt is chosen. (Also more interesting game generally)

    Random Opt is straight in the middle. When playing with several experienced players, those players want a turn to play so they vote against pro opt. Basically, random opt is the go-to for experienced players and noobs alike who want to play as the thing isntead of a pro opt. Notably, random opt can come back to bite experienced players in the ass as sometimes it will choose a noob (Its random after all)

    Overdue opt is so rarely chosen it usually will happen once in a two week period. Why? Because as previously stated by the Pro Opt section, players do not want a crappy thing to die quickly/be boring and then have players leave leading to longer wait times.

    What is the common trend? Whenever there is a noob, bad things happen.

    Noob Things lead to:

    -Quick games

    -Boring games

    -Easy games (for marines)

    So now we know our issue is noob things.
    So lets fix it. How can we improve games with noobs in it?

    Here's my proposal.      

    We change the game so that if the Thing is a cadet or private, and dies before it kills (x) number of marines, a pro opt will be chosen to replace the Thing. In the case that it is only noobs, the game will end.

    What would this help?

    Well, first off, players would be less afraid to allow noob players to be the thing. A game could start out terribly, with the Thing killing one marine and sacrificing itself for almost nothing. Then, the game would continue by making the pro opt of the lobby the Thing. No issues would be had as when the initial thing dies, the pro opt will be in marine form. He can then decide what to do.

    To make this effective, we should be also allowing another opt option.
    We currently have a top option, a least selected option, a random option , and I think we should add a bottom option.

    Labelled something like "New" opt, the opt would select the lowest ranking player to be the Thing. That way, if a game is filled with noobs we can actually begin to train the noobs to be the thing (elsewise we will be stuck with the current pro opts forever). I know if I wanted pro opt, I would vote New opt, because it would help a new player get to know the game but after they die I know the game won't end. Instead, I will get to play an interesting, longer game with a pro opt. In essence, we kill three birds with one stone.

    1) Train noobs to be better players, and get a chance to play the Thing. We end up with more better players in the future because they get to practice as the Thing.

    2) Make the game more interesting for everyone, with the game not ending before it should. More players get to be the thing, more possibility is available.

    3)By making the game more interesting, we expand the community and playerbase as more players want to play again.


    Theres alot that comes with this idea. Hopefully responses to this can clear it up.

    I hope I did a fair job communicating what I think would be a good way to expand the playerbase (by not having cadets never get to be thing/learn/ making games terrible). All this is doing is driving players away and I think we could potentially fix it with this idea Vic has proposed.

    Anyway, please respond what you think of the idea and definitely ask any questions you would have about it.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Pandemonium on Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:53 am

    Vicboy wrote:Something that bothers me is when the Thing dies with some Marines not having seen any action. So I was thinking that if the Thing dies, a new one is picked. Maybe until a certain amount of players or when certain conditions are fulfilled will the game end. I'm not sure, I need opinions on this general idea.

    Let's build more solid structures to the idea. I'm going to start.

    Rule:

    - Thing can be re-chosen only once more within a single game (no ridiculous endless Thing mode)

    - Thing will be re-chosen if it dies within the first 5 minutes, or it doesn't kill over 1/4~1/3 of the lobby before death (1/4~1/3 because if they can kill over that they are likely to win + accounting marines killing themselves)

    - Thing will be re-chosen randomly at all times (prevents pro-opt captain~general killing)

    Pros:

    - The game will be more action-packed overall
    - Deception will be encouraged due to random re-choose

    Cons:

    - Lobby wait time will be even longer
    - Can have games of two noob Things making the game twice as shittier

    Flavor Text for Thing Re-Pick:

    "Insert_Your_Name" was a Thing. Part of the Thing still lurks within the marines.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:32 am

    Pandemonium wrote:- Can have games of two noob Things making the game twice as shittier

    I laughed hysterically at this.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Datasick on Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:49 am

    That sounds cool vic, I think if you were hit once and still survive and the thing dies, then a re opt should happen in mid game for the people hit and if no one was hit, then, poof, game ends.

    But if only one person is hit, then it is a 100% chance of that person being the thing.
    This will be fun Very Happy
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:12 am

    I agree with Pandemonium for the most part. If the Thing can't kill 1/4 of the lobby, repicking would be a solid choice.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by KRZ on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:09 am

    If 3/4 of the marines are alive a repick would be better than a super short game no doubt. Would there be a secondary opt-in and/or vote for random/overdue/pro ? Or would it just assume if you opted in already, your still in, and if game is set to random, it will be random again ?
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Vicboy on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:14 am

    If ever, I'd make it select by Random Opt again. Meaning the players that had opted in the start have a chance. It at least picks a player who is willing to play Thing.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:19 am

    Wait, what about if multiple things could be re-selected until 1/3 died?

    So like Green is cadet thing and dies, he only killed 1 of 9. Yellow gets repicked because overdue opt, kills 1 marine, and dies. We still only have 2/9. However, Red is Private and kills 2 before dying, 30% has been reached, and the game ends.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Vicboy on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:23 am

    I'd limit it to one repick only.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:40 am

    Doesn't that just reduce the chances of a boring game happening without solving the problem though? What if 2 noobs happen in a row? You just wasted even MORE time on the game.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Pandemonium on Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:34 am

    Probe wrote:Doesn't that just reduce the chances of a boring game happening without solving the problem though? What if 2 noobs happen in a row? You just wasted even MORE time on the game.
    Then it sucks to your assmar.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:12 am

    Ok, here's my solution to the problem without having any loose ends that suck

    Requirements of re-selection:

    -The Thing must kill 1 of every 3 alive marines, with the alive marines being counted when a Thing is being selected or else re-picking will occur. Repicking will not occur if any other requirements are broken, however. (Things are excluded from alive marine count.)
    -There must be an opter
    -There must be more than 4 marines alive. If 4 marines remaining will be the result of a Morph (new thing being selected) a new Thing WILL NOT BE SELECTED and the game will end.

    Other notable things:

    -Secondary and further opts must be Random.
    -The Thing does not actually have to kill 1 in every 3 marines. If they kill themselves, it counts.
    -There is no text that displays for everyone when a new thing is selected. The only person receiving the text is the new Thing Morph.

    The reason this is a solid option is because it provides use without exceeding its welcome or being unhelpful. In a lobby of the minimum amount of players (7 because under 7 statistics don't save, meaning the game doesn't count.) there can only be a total of 2 Things maximum or 1 morph.(What I'm calling re-selection) In a lobby of 14 players, the maximum amount of Things throughout the game may be 4 (3 Morphs). It is extremely unlikely this would occur, however. These statistics come from taking the number of alive marines (excluding Thing) and dividing it by 3, rounding down. (Because 1 in 3 marines is required to be killed or else Morph Re-selection occurs. In case you don't understand the logic or math behind this, I've prepared two scenarios below.

    Scenario 1 - Minimum amount of players and Morphs(7)
    Due to there being 7 players in the lobby total, and one is the Thing (thus excluded), it is calculated that there are a total of 6 alive marines. The Thing is required to kill 1 marine for every 3 alive marines, so in this scenario the Thing must kill 2 marines to cancel Morphing. For the purposes of the scenario, let's say the Thing suicides into a group and kills only 1 marine. Because this has not violated any restrictions for Morphing to occur, a new Thing is selected using Random opt. Now, the game started with 6 alive marines, but the original Thing killed one. This leaves us with 5 marines. However, the new Thing Morph, once selected would not count towards the alive marine count, leaving us with 4 alive marines. Because there would be 4 alive marines left in the game, this Morph re-selection will not occur.  

    Scenario 2 - Maximum amount of players and Morphs
    Due to there being 14 players in the lobby total, and one is the Thing (thus excluded), it is calculated that there are a total of 13 alive marines. The Thing is required to kill 1 marine for every 3 alive marines, so in this scenario the Thing must kill 4 marines or else Morphing will occur. (Assuming no other requirements are broken.) For the purposes of the scenario, let's say the Thing manages to kill 3 marines. (One less than required to cancel Morphing) A new Thing Morph is then selected using Random Opt because there is another opter. Now, the game started with 13 alive marines but because 3 died and one will become the new Thing Morph(thus dying in the process), there are now a total of 9 alive marines. (13 - 4 = 9) It is then calculated that since the Thing must kill 1 for every 3 alive marines, he is now required to kill 3 marines or else Morphing may occur again. For the purposes of the scenario, we will defy probability and say the Thing killed 2 marines, 1 shorter than the amount required to cancel Morphing. A new Thing is selected using Random Opt because there was another opter. Earlier, there were a total of 9 alive marines. However, 2 died and the new Thing Morph does not count towards the alive marine count. This leaves us with a total of 6 alive marines. Because the Thing is required to kill 1 of every 3 alive marines, this new Morph must kill 2 marines or else Morphing may occur, assuming there is another opter. For the purposes of the scenario, let's say the 4th Thing, or 3rd Thing Morph, does not manage to kill 2 marines, and only kills 1. Earlier, there were a total of 6 alive marines. 1, however, died, leaving us with 5 alive marines. Because the new Thing Morph does not count to the alive marine number and dies in the process of becoming the Thing, the alive marine count would reduce to 4. However, since this would violate the requirement of having more than 4 players at all times, THIS MORPH WILL NOT OCCUR.

    The following represents how one could calculate whether or not a Morph should occur.

    Round down. MA = Marines Alive, TK = Thing Kills Total,

    More than 4
    If MA/3>4, then requirement is passed and the other requirements are looked at.
    If MA/3<4, then requirement is not passed and morphing will not occur.

    The Thing Required Killcount

    If TK>MA/3 then requirement is not passed and morphing will not occur.
    If TK<MA/3 then requirement is passed and the other requirements are looked at.

    Above 4 players

    If doing action 'Morph' results in MA=4, MA=3,MA=2,MA=1 as true then morphing will not occur.
    If doing action 'Morph' results in MA=4, MA=3,MA=2,MA=1 as false then other requirements will be looked at.

    If there are no opters, game ends as well.

    You get the picture.

    Some pros to this:

    Deception! Unless you count the amount of marines left alive including the amount of times the thing has been killed (you might not even see it die all the time because no text is displayed) you will never know who it is. If there are two groups of marines and one group kills the thing, a member from the other group might now be the thing. That group, however, has seen nothing. They will never know! At any time the thing could die and someone else could replace them meaning it doesn't matter if you have been with someone the whole time. They may have opted, meaning they could be a candidate and a thing

    Think of the possibilities! It doesn't matter anymore sometimes if you were with blue the whole time. He could have been infected from the start. (Thats how we play the lore out)
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Perplexate on Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:40 am

    Been awhile Smile

    Why not just implement a Re-Game function similar to PvZ? There is little to no harm to this.

    Idea Layout

    -At end screen after about 15-30 seconds, a ''Re-Game" option is initiated and requires 70%+ of the players to vote "Yes" for the a Re-Game to be initiated.

    -A maximum of 3 Re-Games would be allowed.

    -Re-game would essentially reload the beggining voting screen and just re-start the game.



    Fairly simple idea really. Many top games include this feature and it'd be a great addition in my opinion.

    -PERP


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:35 pm

    That is an extremely solid, non-intrusive solution to what Vicboy is trying to do. All around it would be pretty good.

    However, I think we should trying to take advantage of the situation. If we can implement a feature which not only accomplishes resolving terrible games, but also enhances other aspects of gameplay including deception etc, then why shouldn't we? If we have an opportunity to make the game scarier, make marines actually not know who it is, then it is almost a must to attempt to use it.

    "That was a crappy game, let's restart." vs. "Oh god, it was a bad Thing. (Holy fuck its one of us now.)

    In my opinion, we shouldn't be making a fix. We should be making a feature. Instead of something to fix something else, make it a new, fun feature. Great.

    Or as you will probably here me say alot:

    2 birds, one stone.

    Of course, this is assuming your idea cannot co-exist with any other form of re-selection.


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:45 pm

    We need to bump this thread. But I don't want it to be a big bump...

    If I put bump at the start of a sentence and don't make the b a capital, it would be smaller than usual......

    bumping is something I won't do then...

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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Durzan on Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:35 pm

    ...crap...I just double posted...


    Last edited by Durzan on Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Durzan on Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:39 pm

    Perplexate wrote:Been awhile Smile

    Why not just implement a Re-Game function similar to PvZ? There is little to no harm to this.

    Idea Layout

    -At end screen after about 15-30 seconds, a ''Re-Game" option is initiated and requires 70%+ of the players to vote "Yes" for the a Re-Game to be initiated.

    -A maximum of 3 Re-Games would be allowed.

    -Re-game would essentially reload the beggining voting screen and just re-start the game.



    Fairly simple idea really. Many top games include this feature and it'd be a great addition in my opinion.

    -PERP

    I suggested that on the old forum, and it got shot down by pretty much everyone. I think that at this point, it would be a good idea for a future implementation. Simple solution: add both options to the game. But each at different times. I'd install the thing Repick first.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:38 am

    lol double posts, hate it when that happens.

    I honestly don't see a downside to making the Thing get re-selected. Makes the game more interested, people will either notice and like it or not notice it at all.

    Still thinking on the re-game option. Couldn't that be extremely volatile to the lobbies? You would keep the game going forever with like 7 people and no future players would be able to join because when they join an empty lobby, most people leave.

    I also went to bed 1 hour ago, and its like 11:30 am so that's good. (Ignore any stupidity plz)


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Perplexate on Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:46 am

    As I said, 3 re-games would be allowed in total, Maybe only one replay. The point would be to allow a quick re-game and not lose 4 players in the next lobby.


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:51 pm

    Ah, sorry, didn't see your thing about 3 re-games only or whatever. I could see 1 or 2, 3 is stretching it a bit.

    I like both ideas stated.

    Someone else better start making suggestions. Threads just die because noone keeps them going. Either A) You're all too lazy to contribute to the thread or B) We don't have enough players on the website anD YOU SHOULD BE INVITING MORE.

    The thing is, most people are doing neither.
    Spam the website link, idk. Do something.
    People are getting on 12pm Probe's nerves.

    Do you want the earth to explode?

    *Edit: Don't answer that, it'll just distract you.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Perplexate on Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:18 am

    Well we would have alot of people, but most of the people that'd be on here didn't know about the website migration, especially since Vic tried 1-2 other sites before this which made things hectic.


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:33 am

    I have a solution.

    TheThingRevival.tk
    TheThingRevival.tk
    TheThingRevival.tk
    TheThingRevival.tk
    TheThingRevival.tk
    TheThingRevival.tk

    Problem solved. Anyway, back on topic.

    I like either ideas. Anybody else got any input besides just us 3? Vic, you're included in this discussion too.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Datasick on Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:12 pm



    Looking sexy my man...



    Though people may have there doubts about this, I would really love to see how this turns out.
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:47 am

    Thank you sir. I take pride in my looks.

    You could see how it turns out by saying what you like, dislike, and what you think should be added or subtracted. So do it >.>


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:34 pm

    bump, because this is more important in my eyes than an achievements thread >.>

    Anyone agree on any ideas? No? How do you think Thing Re-selection should be added? In what form? How? Why? Post your ideas!


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Datasick on Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:57 pm

    Pffft, I think it's the gr8test idea ever and idk why it has not been publicly tested yet.


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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Datasick on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:14 am

    Probe wrote:bump

    bump

    Probe wrote:We need to bump this thread. But I don't want it to be a big bump...

    If I put bump at the start of a sentence and don't make the b a capital, it would be smaller than usual......

    bumping is something I won't do then...

    bump.....
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Probe on Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:17 am

    You asshole.

    But seriously. I think Thing should be repicked if a certain amount of marines don't die during that player's time as the Thing. Makes it so

    A) Extremely reduced chances of having uninteresting game.
    B) Allows multiple people to be the Thing in a round, making it more interesting and appealing
    C) Trains noobs to be the Thing.
    D) Makes it dynamic and deceptive as, at any time, a new marine could be selected as the Thing without everyone knowing.

    This would be excellently paired with the ability to choose "REGAME" which essentially resets everything so you don't have to leave the game and remake.

    Side effects of this:

    Potentially longer wait lobbies do to games being slightly longer because of regaming/reselection
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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

    Post by Datasick on Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:15 am

    Probe wrote:You asshole.

    Pssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst

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    Re: Repick Thing midgame?

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