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    thing have different classes

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    thing have different classes

    Post by Shadow on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:20 pm

    Wello I'm lazy and I'm not like probe who writes 10 power paragraphs about his topic so...Although people have thought of point and load out systems what about the thing?????

    Thing should have differnt classes.

    For example only the thing/abberision can costume to gain hp

    Zergling thing is a super fast thing and can attack quickly and run away, like a hit and run class

    Brutalisk/ultralisk can be tank class who walks slow and it has to utilize burrow charges and maybe come with a charge ability, it can tank more hits because it has more hp and armor, it can destroy doors much quicker

    Queen, a spell caster thing who can create like 4 weak Zergling that can scout and attack, is ranged,  can throw like smoke bombs/produce black fog like lights out to disappear (it blinds u for a time)

    Changeling,  weak fragile thing, it's marine form is its thing form, it has two attacks one that makes spikes appear and other is regular marine shoot, can be cloaked, can change to any marine color even alive

    Infestor,  can attack marines and leech onto a target  in a range and can use his life (if it's hp goes down it can use the marines hp and the marine is injured in process) can use fungal to freeze and deal damage to marine to escape.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Perplexate on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:23 pm

    It has been suggested before, and although I myself think it'd be a great idea, there's been a lack of imperative to make major changes to game...But if it can happen, I'm all for it.


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Shadow on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:29 pm

    Perplexate wrote:It has been suggested before, and although I myself think it'd be a great idea, there's been a lack of imperative to make major changes to game...But if it can happen, I'm all for it.


    # get willu to code all of this? And I would like to add that the Changeling would also add more deception.....
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Perplexate on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:06 pm

    Allow me to help put in some base numbers and ideas for this. For comparison:

    Original Thing Base Stats:
    HP: 300 (Varies)
    Damage: 15
    Speed: (Approx. 1.5x Marines Speed)
    Attack Speed: (Approx. 1.5)

    Zergling: (Speed Class)
    HP: 145
    Damage: 5 (10 hits)
    Speed: 2.1x Marine Speed
    Attack Speed: 0.5
    Abilities:
    -Carry (Carry's target with Thing for 5 seconds, marine is immune to damage during this time and thing gets +5% speed boost. Cooldown: 40s)
    -Jump (Thing Jumps to target location gaining immunity while doing so. Can jump over doors. Cooldown: 45s)

    Brute/Ultra: (Tank Class)
    HP: 400
    Speed: 1.1x Marine Speed
    Damage: 23
    Attack Speed: 2
    AoE: 3 (Decently large AoE)
    Abilities:
    -Armored (Thing loses 75% movement speed and reduces incoming attacks by 95% for 5 seconds. Cooldown: 55s)
    -Slam (Thing bashes area around it stunning all marines within the area, and dealing a significant amount of damage. Cooldown: 45s)

    Changeling: (Deception Class)
    HP: 145
    Damage: 8
    Speed: 1.35x Marine Speed
    Attack Speed: 1.1
    Abilities:
    -Change (May change to the color of any marine while in changeling form. Changeling form is the same size as a marine form but abilities may not be used in marine form.)
    -Cloak (Thing cloaks for 25 seconds, attacks will disrupt this. Can be attacked if touched. Cooldown: 45s)
    -(Passive) Signal (Thing can signal anywhere on the map with a ping which all players see, and can talk through radio at all times.)
    -Engulf (Thing latches to single player, dealing 4HPPS, marine cannot move or talk during this time, but may shoot and use items. Thing takes 50% more damage during this time. Cooldown: 25s).

    I might do the rest later, but that's a base for the main one's.





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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by LostHope on Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:33 am

    Or we can just give it the ability to change its form to adapt to certain situations? I don't like the idea of classes for the Thing while the Marines can't even change their own.

    Attack/Assault
    Speed
    Defense
    Utility
    Caster (No real attack)
    Default/All Around


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Proteo on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:46 am

    Perplexate wrote:Allow me to help put in some base numbers and ideas for this. For comparison:

    Original Thing Base Stats:
    HP: 300 (Varies)
    Damage: 15
    Speed: (Approx. 1.5x Marines Speed)
    Attack Speed: (Approx. 1.5)

    Zergling: (Speed Class)
    HP: 145
    Damage: 5 (10 hits)
    Speed: 2.1x Marine Speed
    Attack Speed: 0.5
    Abilities:
    -Carry (Carry's target with Thing for 5 seconds, marine is immune to damage during this time and thing gets +5% speed boost. Cooldown: 40s)
    -Jump (Thing Jumps to target location gaining immunity while doing so. Can jump over doors. Cooldown: 45s)

    Brute/Ultra: (Tank Class)
    HP: 400
    Speed: 1.1x Marine Speed
    Damage: 23
    Attack Speed: 2
    AoE: 3 (Decently large AoE)
    Abilities:
    -Armored (Thing loses 75% movement speed and reduces incoming attacks by 95% for 5 seconds. Cooldown: 55s)
    -Slam (Thing bashes area around it stunning all marines within the area, and dealing a significant amount of damage. Cooldown: 45s)

    Changeling: (Deception Class)
    HP: 145
    Damage: 8
    Speed: 1.35x Marine Speed
    Attack Speed: 1.1
    Abilities:
    -Change (May change to the color of any marine while in changeling form. Changeling form is the same size as a marine form but abilities may not be used in marine form.)
    -Cloak (Thing cloaks for 25 seconds, attacks will disrupt this. Can be attacked if touched. Cooldown: 45s)
    -(Passive) Signal (Thing can signal anywhere on the map with a ping which all players see, and can talk through radio at all times.)
    -Engulf (Thing latches to single player, dealing 4HPPS, marine cannot move or talk during this time, but may shoot and use items. Thing takes 50% more damage during this time. Cooldown: 25s).

    I might do the rest later, but that's a base for the main one's.



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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by willuwontu on Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:01 am

    Me and vic have discussed this before, and last time we discussed it, we came to the conclusion that it should remain as one base thing. I can't remember the reasoning behind the arguments that led to that point, but afaik vic only wants us to have one base class for the thing. One of these days i'll update my map, which had multiple.

    If we were (keyword) to add them, I'd keep the zergling and brutalisk ones with minor changes, but as far as deception, that's an infestor.

    Infestor: (Deception Class)
    HP: 1000
    Energy: 1000
    Damage: 5
    Speed: 1x Marine Speed
    Attack Speed: 1.5
    Abilities:
    Clone: Creates a fake copy of a marine that the infestor has killed for 3 min, this reduces the maximum life and energy of the infestor by 50 each permanently, upon the clones death it creates a corpse as per normal. only one may exist at a time
    Seeing double: The infestor creates a copy of itself that lasts for 3 min. This reduces the infestors life and energy by 150 each. Upon death it creates a corpse. only one may exist at a time
    Corpse scavenge: The infestor can consume fresh corpses and corpse of clones, to increase it's life and energy permanently. 50 for marine, 150 for infestor doubles.

    The infestor controls clones and double by using abilities to have them attack move to a target point or unit. The clones and doubles deal and take damage as normal.

    Edit: if we were to implement this, there would be classes for marines as well as thing probably.

    A ghost:
    slower speed, stronger attack, less life, and a cloak instead of stimpack.
    Reaper:
    Faster speed, weaker attack, less life, and similar thing to burrow charge instead of stim.
    Marauder:
    Slower speed, Stronger attack, more life, normal stimpack/maybe concussive grenades.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Perplexate on Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:59 am

    willuwontu wrote:Me and vic have discussed this before, and last time we discussed it, we came to the conclusion that it should remain as one base thing. I can't remember the reasoning behind the arguments that led to that point, but afaik vic only wants us to have one base class for the thing. One of these days i'll update my map, which had multiple.

    Hrm. I understand you and Vic aren't eager to make major changes to the game, but I think that they will be needed to take the game further. Maybe we could get a test map in so that we can privately test these ideas out for the main game?

    Also, I would primarily focus on Thing classes currently. I think that having seperate perks and such for each, rather than having specialized classes for both is a better idea. It makes playing each role completely unique in its own rite.


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by zakhennahr on Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:45 am

    I like the infestor idea the most. Makes it so that you don't come back as that solo marine that everyone suspects, and would actually improve deception in the game. Actually, fuck it, just give the thing a changeling as the base ability right now, take 50 life from Thing with its measly 300 HP and that's that. Smart marines could try shooting the Thing in marine form and seeing its life go down faster, but at the risk of being shot to death by other marines for teamkilling. Bunch of other good uses I can see for it.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Datasick on Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:05 am

    Dude, how about we make our own models. I'm trying to learn, but I'm running out of time these days.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by willuwontu on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:01 pm

    Datasick wrote:Dude, how about we make our own models. I'm trying to learn, but I'm running out of time these days.

    If you want to make your own model that'd be fine, as for me, i have no talent in modeling (and i got into the art tools beta for some reason)
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Durzan on Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:41 am

    100% support.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by The Real Jesus on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:28 pm

    Durzan wrote:100% support.

    I play assault in battlefield myself.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Probe on Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:05 pm

    Honestly, I'm not really up for changing the game to integrate classes. There's absolutely no reason to because we haven't even fucking figured out the current version. Marines still camp, games go on forever without much happening to certain marines, no regame feature, etc.

    Besides that, there's absolutely no way to balance the classes without wasting time because if we DO make major changes then we will have to rebalance every class.

    Core mechanics FIRST. 
    Including points system, game balance, purpose of each role, fun of the game.

    Classes SECOND.
    Anything extra.


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Perplexate on Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:05 am

    Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Phantom01 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:12 am

    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a lot of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if a marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, aberration, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might think of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.


    Last edited by Phantom01 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Probe on Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:53 am

    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.
    Marines camping is A) Boring which means B) Deters new people from game which results in C) the playerbase being made of only pros and noobs meaning D) We will never grow as a community.

    You're an extremely experienced player. You have exception to the rule because you're good enough to go out and hunt or to continuously attack. Other players can't do that. 

    I don't mean postpone all other updates. Certain updates? Yes. Classes are something that are extremely dependent on the way the game plays. Every single damage modifier, speed modifier, item modifier, ANYTHING changes upon HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED and upon BALANCE. So we need to figure that out first, the core mechanics first, then the classes. Else we spend half our time balancing after we make any minor change.

    We can throw ideas out there all we want, though the concentration of ideas would be better suited to more pressing matters such as making the core gameplay more interesting.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Probe on Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:54 am

    Phantom01 wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if this marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, abberation, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might thing of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.
    Strong but Slow class? Kite it. Better yet? Kite it with lots of marines.

    EDIT: Unless of course marines had something to do instead of camping during the game other than waiting for the Thing to make a bad move.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Perplexate on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:21 am

    Probe wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.
    Marines camping is A) Boring which means B) Deters new people from game which results in C) the playerbase being made of only pros and noobs meaning D) We will never grow as a community.

    You're an extremely experienced player. You have exception to the rule because you're good enough to go out and hunt or to continuously attack. Other players can't do that. 

    I don't mean postpone all other updates. Certain updates? Yes. Classes are something that are extremely dependent on the way the game plays. Every single damage modifier, speed modifier, item modifier, ANYTHING changes upon HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED and upon BALANCE. So we need to figure that out first, the core mechanics first, then the classes. Else we spend half our time balancing after we make any minor change.

    We can throw ideas out there all we want, though the concentration of ideas would be better suited to more pressing matters such as making the core gameplay more interesting.

    I'm saying that camping is what's occured due to the playstyle of MOST of the proffesional community. I came back to the game after two years and learned under FRK. FRK didn't camp, he moved continuously and I learned his playstyle. Camping isn't just 'The best way to play right now', it's because the newbs are learning to do it from the pro's. Anyways, you're missing the point, which is that the Thing classes could break campers. And besides, with the new Oxygen discussion of ours on the other thread would most likely solve this issue, putting us back to 'Where now?' yet again.



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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Phantom01 on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:58 am

    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if this marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, abberation, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might thing of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.
    Strong but Slow class? Kite it. Better yet? Kite it with lots of marines.

    EDIT: Unless of course marines had something to do instead of camping during the game other than waiting for the Thing to make a bad move.

    Lets not get to nit picky. Obviously I am just throwing examples out there. Balancing would have to be done to make it work right. My point is that there would be a class that has the specific role in mind to be better against larger groups of marines rather than smaller groups.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Probe on Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:46 am

    Phantom01 wrote:
    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if this marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, abberation, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might thing of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.
    Strong but Slow class? Kite it. Better yet? Kite it with lots of marines.

    EDIT: Unless of course marines had something to do instead of camping during the game other than waiting for the Thing to make a bad move.

    Lets not get to nit picky. Obviously I am just throwing examples out there. Balancing would have to be done to make it work right. My point is that there would be a class that has the specific role in mind to be better against larger groups of marines rather than smaller groups.
    Then we just go back to what I said earlier about classes relying on the rest of the game, not the other way around. If we decide infection is a thing, like I said in our development thread, then the classes will ALL need readjusting. In the event that we add the new oxy system I proposed, the amount of marines classified as a 'big group' changes and thus so does every class. Its pointless to add classes if they are just going to break every single time we add something. We are still developing core aspects of the game.

    Ideas are appreciated, though they could really be used in more important sections.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Proteo on Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:11 am

    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if this marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, abberation, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might thing of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.
    Strong but Slow class? Kite it. Better yet? Kite it with lots of marines.

    EDIT: Unless of course marines had something to do instead of camping during the game other than waiting for the Thing to make a bad move.

    Lets not get to nit picky. Obviously I am just throwing examples out there. Balancing would have to be done to make it work right. My point is that there would be a class that has the specific role in mind to be better against larger groups of marines rather than smaller groups.
    Then we just go back to what I said earlier about classes relying on the rest of the game, not the other way around. If we decide infection is a thing, like I said in our development thread, then the classes will ALL need readjusting. In the event that we add the new oxy system I proposed, the amount of marines classified as a 'big group' changes and thus so does every class. Its pointless to add classes if they are just going to break every single time we add something. We are still developing core aspects of the game.

    Ideas are appreciated, though they could really be used in more important sections.

    I feel like this is something from kickstarter. 2+ years and we are "still developing core aspects" of the game XD
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Perplexate on Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:42 am

    Proteo wrote:

    I feel like this is something from kickstarter. 2+ years and we are "still developing core aspects" of the game XD

    Two years ago? Nigga, this still be a thing.


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Phantom01 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:57 am

    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if this marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, abberation, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might thing of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.
    Strong but Slow class? Kite it. Better yet? Kite it with lots of marines.

    EDIT: Unless of course marines had something to do instead of camping during the game other than waiting for the Thing to make a bad move.

    Lets not get to nit picky. Obviously I am just throwing examples out there. Balancing would have to be done to make it work right. My point is that there would be a class that has the specific role in mind to be better against larger groups of marines rather than smaller groups.

    Then we just go back to what I said earlier about classes relying on the rest of the game, not the other way around. If we decide infection is a thing, like I said in our development thread, then the classes will ALL need readjusting. In the event that we add the new oxy system I proposed, the amount of marines classified as a 'big group' changes and thus so does every class. Its pointless to add classes if they are just going to break every single time we add something. We are still developing core aspects of the game.

    Ideas are appreciated, though they could really be used in more important sections.

    CORE aspects of the game are completed in my honest opinion. Having a thing, maps to play on, marines, some balance, and a common goal for all players to achieve is about as core as it gets. Whatever oxy system you are proposing is not that much drastically different then what I or anyone else is suggesting if you really think about it.

    Also on a side note I pray to God you are 'buffing' the oxy system to make it worse for marines. Nobody likes it. Hell even when I am thing I don't like marines camping but still manage to hate the oxy system three times as much. There are better ways to handle marines camping then using the bullshit 'oxy' mechanic.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Probe on Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:21 am

    Phantom01 wrote:
    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Probe wrote:
    Phantom01 wrote:
    Perplexate wrote:Marines are going to camp. And frankly I see nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of tactics I use to defeat campers, It isn't hard.

    The issue of games going on forever occurs with bad things, or bad marines. When I'm thing I'm constantly attacking and the game never slows, and when I'm marine I hunt the thing. So it isn't the how the games setup that makes it boring, it's how you play it.

    A re-game feature is needed, but postponing ALL other updates until then? That's just asinine.

    We are just trying to throw ideas out there. Nobody is asking for this stuff RIGHT NOW, and we have no ordered way of suggesting ideas or current priorities.

    ^. This game has sooooo much potential. Please don't limit it. It's like Perplexate says, we are not demanding these ideas immediately be implemented but they are ones to definitely keep in mind.

    Also, as a note, I think adding classes would actually fix a of the camping 'problems.' For example, what if a more anti-camping class is created (ie. uber strong but slow ultralisk class)? Now that this class is a possible choice for the thing to play as it would actually and more depth and deception to the game because the marines will never know for certain what the thing is playing as. Is it safer to camp or safer to go solo? What if this marine is lying about the thing's class? Get my point? Similarly a zergling class would also become an equally good choice because although it would be much more susceptible to camping then most other classes the marines still won't know if the thing is an ultra, abberation, mutalisk, or freaking carrier for all it matters. Now the marines might thing of splitting up (because of something like an ultra class being in play) and play right into the zergling's class hands. As it currently stands players already know exactly what the thing plans on doing and exactly how to counter it. Everything is linear every damn game. A change like this would absolutely help prevent this.

    DYNAMIC GAMEPLAY > LINEAR GAMEPLAY.

    Always.
    Strong but Slow class? Kite it. Better yet? Kite it with lots of marines.

    EDIT: Unless of course marines had something to do instead of camping during the game other than waiting for the Thing to make a bad move.

    Lets not get to nit picky. Obviously I am just throwing examples out there. Balancing would have to be done to make it work right. My point is that there would be a class that has the specific role in mind to be better against larger groups of marines rather than smaller groups.

    Then we just go back to what I said earlier about classes relying on the rest of the game, not the other way around. If we decide infection is a thing, like I said in our development thread, then the classes will ALL need readjusting. In the event that we add the new oxy system I proposed, the amount of marines classified as a 'big group' changes and thus so does every class. Its pointless to add classes if they are just going to break every single time we add something. We are still developing core aspects of the game.

    Ideas are appreciated, though they could really be used in more important sections.

    CORE aspects of the game are completed in my honest opinion. Having a thing, maps to play on, marines, some balance, and a common goal for all players to achieve is about as core as it gets. Whatever oxy system you are proposing is not that much drastically different then what I or anyone else is suggesting if you really think about it.

    Also on a side note I pray to God you are 'buffing' the oxy system to make it worse for marines. Nobody likes it. Hell even when I am thing I don't like marines camping but still manage to hate the oxy system three times as much. There are better ways to handle marines camping then using the bullshit 'oxy' mechanic.
    In essence, a very steep incline and different mechanic within it.

    Current: count number of marines near red, then deplete oxy if its like fucking 5 and do it slowly.

    Proposed: count number of marines near red + count the number of marines near players near red.

    The oxygen system would also crack down very hard with numbers. The maximum you could have in a group would be 5, 6 if someone was to run inside and outside the group repeatedly.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Shadow on Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:41 am

    I like the proposed so I can be like I'm just getting o2 brb, locks and transforms then kill any marine out with me....then come back in be like sup and then they all shoot me Very Happy


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by willuwontu on Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:11 pm

    The reason camping is so popular is because there is no reason for marines to go anywhere or to hunt down the thing due to evac, back before the evac system was put in the marines didn't camp because they had to go chase down the thing. Now they don't need to.
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by ReeferFist on Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:05 pm

    willuwontu wrote:The reason camping is so popular is because there is no reason for marines to go anywhere or to hunt down the thing due to evac, back before the evac system was put in the marines didn't camp because they had to go chase down the thing. Now they don't need to.

    players didn't start camping until someone put those stupid fans in the evac that made it overpowering in favor of the marines.

    evac should be in favor of the thing, this would give marines more of an incentive to go adventure and hunt.


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Shadow on Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:36 pm

    But without the fans then marines are open to the thing. Think about it, even with 2 or 3 ppl and fans u can kill thing....but without fans it's complicated and they are left to fend for themselves out in the open.....it's like ur caught without ur pants....and boxers....but the fans are like ur salvation and it's like u pull up ur pants just in time as someone comes into ur room.....think about it that way....


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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Dude on Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:35 pm

    Shadow wrote:But without the fans then marines are open to the thing. Think about it, even with 2 or 3 ppl and fans u can kill thing....but without fans it's complicated and they are left to fend for themselves out in the open.....it's like ur caught without ur pants....and boxers....but the fans are like ur salvation and it's like u pull up ur pants just in time as someone comes into ur room.....think about it that way....

    exactly his point? he wants evac to lean in favor of thing not marines
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    Re: thing have different classes

    Post by Durzan on Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:37 pm

    This idea, while old, would go well if it was implemented hand in hand with the marine Classes idea I just recently suggested.

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